EP8: Walk Through the Door, with Greg Dyke

Kristen Cerelli 0:00

The interviews in this podcast, all of which are ultimately uplifting stories of human transformation may contain general discussions of depression, trauma, violence, abuse, or cultural and racial bias. On this episode of shift shift Blum,

Greg Dyke 0:17

they went to northern India. And it was in going there that, you know, I met Tibetan refugees, and they talked about Yaks and all that kind of thing. got me interested to the point that when I came back one time, I thought, well, I can try to find one. And so I did, I found one in Ohio and the guy sold it to me and turns out you can't buy one yet because they'll see you as a predator. So the first day was great the second day, the thing he tried to kill.

Kristen Cerelli 0:49

From engineer to yak rancher, and many other titles in between, it might look like Greg dikes career changes are merely a patchwork of where the wind took him. But as our conversation reveals, it's clear that each chapter in Greg's story has been guided by the common thread of values, he lives and beliefs. I'm Kristen Cerelli, and you're listening to shift bloom, a podcast about how people change.

My guest today is Greg Dyke. That's the Reverend Dr. Greg Dyke to you. He grew up outside of Syracuse, New York, and has traveled extensive geographical and professional terrain. No joking here. Greg has been an engineer, a minister, and a nurse, both in the ER and in the prison system, among other things. Today, Greg and his wife, Linda, run Zhiba Shinga yak ranch in Wellington, Kentucky, the first of its kind in the state, where they work to increase awareness of the sustainability of Yak farming, and encourage more farms to raise these hearty creatures themselves. I am personally delighted to talk to someone who seems to normalize the career change at any stage for me and all of us who might not always fit in or want to fit in one professional box. Welcome, Greg.

Greg Dyke 2:24

Thank you for having me. Good to be here.

Kristen Cerelli 2:27

So I, it's not maybe fair to start out with this question. But since the podcast is about change, and you've gone through all of these rather large career changes, and I think some of them have taken you to different places in the country in the world, it makes me wonder, are you built for change, at least on that professional level in a way that most people are not?

Greg Dyke 2:54

I'm not sure how other people are built. But I think I'm built for change. I think that's just part of who I am. And as always, I always have that that's needed. In my life, sort of to keep me stimulated and going and even within the different parts of my life or segments of it, to build change within what I'm doing is is important.

Kristen Cerelli 3:22

Is that a quality that you recognize or could recognize in yourself at a young age?

Greg Dyke 3:28

No, I haven't I had no idea. I think I think you probably see it looking back. The one thing I can remember, as I was being amazed by people who know what they wanted to do for sure. They would tell you what they would be doing 20 years down the road, and I couldn't think of what I'd be doing. You know, two minutes later, probably.

Kristen Cerelli 3:51

You grew up outside of Syracuse, New York, in a rural area. Yes. And you said, at least your dad, I think was an academic.

Greg Dyke 4:01

Eventually my mother was to I mean, in terms of teaching at university level. But yes.

Kristen Cerelli 4:08

What specifically did they teach English literature? So tell me a little bit about growing up in that household? I'm curious about, you know, there's, it seems like there's this side of your parents that were artistic or artistic leaning, but then they were in this rather traditional life path, which academia can be, what was it like growing up in that household?

Greg Dyke 4:35

Well, I'm not sure that they they fit the normal mold. I mean, within their careers. I said, you know, they did my father. Once he got his doctorate, stayed at Syracuse University pretty much all as well all of his life. Although the interesting thing is the before he died, he said the most exciting teaching he did was at all Hubbard state prison, where he worked with inmates on writing, most university professors and so on, you know, live 13 blocks from the university and, you know, sort of a brick house with a lot of trees or something, but at least back in that time, he, on the other hand lived, you know, out in the country, basically in a rundown farm. And his His thing was horses. And the only reason as the story goes, that he finished his doctorate was that he broke both legs in an accident with a horse, and, you know, had nothing better to do. So he was the kind of the odd person in the, in the rural area, you know, because the university professor who has the rundown place in the old tractor, and the old cars who never bought anything, you know, within 20 years of being new, and, you know, my mother at the time, she was sort of, she could broad very well, but she was more sort of the grounds crew and that sort of thing. She worked in social services for a while, and then went and became dean at Kirkland College, which was the, the women's component of Hamilton College when it first opened, and then later taught English literature there as well. So it was a it was not a traditional university family kind of thing was more like, that's a strange family. And the parties that they would have with university people in the writers they knew where we're, you know, probably quite interesting parties, but I was sort of too young to appreciate them other than noticing that the sort of a lot of arguing that went on that sort of, and a lot of drinking, of course,

Kristen Cerelli 6:44

did you like growing up on a farm with horses,

Greg Dyke 6:48

I enjoyed the horses, but not in the way they did, there was plenty of land, so you could trail rod and my sister and I would trail rod, she was the one who wrote in the Fox on, I was the one who really was not interested. She was the one who showed and I was not interested in that I was actually more interested in in cattle for some reason, you know, which was not, did not fit the family image or whatever, you know, that was not my father's interest. But you know, we tolerated that kind of thing. But, you know, for me, horses were, were fun to be around and do things with, but you know, the pressure, the competitive nature of showing that competitive side of things, which was, you know, my father was part of what was not of interest to me.

Kristen Cerelli 7:33

Yet, you went into a STEM field you went into engineering to start out with, which seems like it might have an aspect of being competitive. Is that true? Or wasn't?

Greg Dyke 7:45

No, no, no, I mean, you know, when, when I was, you know, finishing getting toward the end of high school, the understanding of the household was, you will get good grades, you'll go to college, that it was pretty, pretty wide open. But I think the understanding was, you will, you know, work in the humanities and be involved in the humanities. And my interest at that time was not there. And you know, mathematics and science were pretty easy. So, that was like, Well, you know, what are you going to do? Well, I might as well go to engineering school, you know, for lack of having any good solid input or anything like that.

Kristen Cerelli 8:24

Was that a disappointment for your parents when you went that route instead of the humanities? Oh, certainly

Greg Dyke 8:29

was to my father, that was an absolute betrayal. I mean, that was, you know, an evil things. He was pretty much a pacifist, although he was in World War Two, he was a conscientious objector. And when given the choice between prison or going, you know, going in the infantry, I guess, you know, he became a medic, and actually part of a group that liberated some of the concentration camps. And so his his position was one of pretty much non violence, but he, he would be very strong in that stance. So I think the engineering side, really represented not a good side of life, Vietnam was was what's going on and, you know, anything you heard about was the latest weaponry and that sort of thing. And that was not good in his book, or mine, particularly.

Kristen Cerelli 9:22

But yeah, did your first job take you into some military capacity?

Greg Dyke 9:28

It did, I needed that. Actually, when I was at the university, I protested against the company I ended up working for. But, you know, at a certain point, you need a job. And, you know, I knew the area, I knew that company. And I called them up and said, you have an opening and they took me and so I worked on computer modeling projects for a couple years, and then switched over to the social sciences division, which was doing things with energy conservation.

Kristen Cerelli: 10:00

strikes me as an interesting commonality maybe or a thread between you and your dad that he protested against the war and ultimately had to join, chose to join. And you protested against this company and ultimately needed a job and ticket?

Greg Dyke: 10:18

Well, he had to join, because it was, you know, the choice was present. I mean, he could have taken that, that route, I could have looked for a job elsewhere. And it was, it was probably as much convenience as anything else. And, you know, realizing that I was sort of selling out in that moment, it was a good place to work in terms of learning, not about military industrial things, or even, but just going from the theoretical to the applied, it was, you know, that was good. And just the, you know, problem solving is a real interesting thing, no matter what the problems are. So, actually, you know, and that's something that carries through, in most areas, and it certainly has in every area of my life, be it within the church, or within the X is that I think the ability to analytically look at things and think about them and try to resolve things or figure out how to move forward to a key thing. You know, and that's probably the other side of it, you know, partly by the moving on part of my life is, you get bored. And so you know, probably with everything I've done, I've gone looking to sort of push things, to create the more interesting problems, or find the more interesting problems to deal with.

Kristen Cerelli: 11:43

So was it ultimately, partially boredom, I would guess that moves you out of engineering, towards the ministry, all along

Greg Dyke: 11:52

through the whole thing when I was in college, is the whole the whole issue of social justice. And that's always been there. And that was there in college, you know, I did voter registration in Mississippi. And, you know, things inherit the Vietnam War, and so on. But I was very fortunate in undergraduate school that at Syracuse University, that time, the engineering department probably had the most creative social justice group of faculty on campus, and they're amazing people, very good in engineering. But, you know, what they were concerned about, you know, or issues of social justice and how things worked. And so is it a great place for an education at that time in that place for who I was. So social justice was, was always part of it. And, you know, through reading and things like that, you know, I came to see that the church could be a model of bringing in, well, a model for social justice, because social justice is not just a system of rules that one adopts it, it really is preceded by a way of thinking, or a sense of who one is as a person. And so that was kind of a thing that drove me in a sense, you know, on to, to go to seminary.

Kristen Cerelli: 13:19

So, you, you end up going to Colgate Rochester Crozier Divinity School, and that, that has a very interesting history and a very rich, rich history in terms of social justice. I mean, Martin Luther King, Jr. had gone to Crozier, Howard Thurman had gone to Colgate Rochester. Were you? Were you intentional in choosing to go there or was kind of it's in Rochester, you were in Phoenix.

Greg Dyke: 13:44

It was out. It was convenience. And, and pretty much that was the only seminary within probably several 100 miles, it turned out to be a very good place. Because some of the faculty they are not. It was a math, it was counted as among the Methodists as a viable seminary to pursue the requirements for, you know, a master's in divinity within the Methodist system, even though it only has one Methodist faculty member,

Unknown Speaker: 14:15

because it's a Baptist institution, essentially here.

Greg Dyke: 14:19

There's also Presbyterian, and you name it, but also those Catholic institution. Okay. Some of the professors that I had some in particular fellow by the name of Joe torma, his big thing was social justice. And also, you know, there there are people that were connected, that knew Dr. King and had taught him and been at Crozier with him and so on. And again, you know, I was around the right people, because they saw, you know, biblical issues and things like that in terms of justice as well. So it wasn't it wasn't necessarily a religious training, although you know, those things are Part of it, you know, it's also a community where, you know, the issues of justice do come up. This This fellow Joe torma, he was out there I he, he brought in very good readings that, you know, I think changed a lot of people in terms of their thinking about how the system works, or doesn't work. And I remember one, one of the things, you know, that he did at that time was he connected me with a friend of his in the diocese, who was the social justice person there. And in New York State, there's a reservation and the Seneca Indians, because the Senecas were there. And they worked at a mink farm, that there were all these rumors about basically as being a slave labor camp, where they worked with, you know, slaughtered manque. And did that sort of raised and slaughtered I guess, for the pals. And so this fellow and eyes snuck in one night to say, the interview people, and it was everything it was, but I mean, those kinds of things, you know, open one's mind up to how things Do or do not work in the system. And what's allowed, you know, for some of us those unnecessary things to be part of,

Kristen Cerelli: 16:14

you're painting a really intriguing and unexpected picture of Divinity School for me, and I want to know, if you did you get there? And were you like, hallelujah, this is what I needed?

Greg Dyke: 16:28

No, I mean, when I went there, I had no idea what to expect, you know, I was just really fortunate, I mean, and it made me that's the whole story is, I've been very fortunate. In everything I've done, there have been great people who had done or seen or been part of probably great things. And they may not have mentored me, but they shared a lot. It's in some way, they shared critical things and thoughts along the journey. And that's probably enabled me to do what I've done. It's nothing about me, you know, other than if the door was open, I would walk through it. And still do I mean, the opposite. One, you know, when things come, I tend to walk, walk through the door, and say, well, it's open for a reason. I'll do it

Kristen Cerelli: 17:20

with without hesitation, Is it always like, Yeah, I'm going, there's the, there's the door is open, I'm gonna go,

Greg Dyke: 17:28

the hesitation increases, the older you get, because of the more responsibilities you have. So when you when the door is open, you know, you have to look at what your responsibilities are, if you can go through the door, and realize that, you know, you're, you're dragging people with you at some level, but there are door their doors within everything. Every job, there's owes a door to do kind of what would be considered social justice or what is right, everybody has the opportunity to to push that boundary in some way. I mean, that's the door. Whether they choose to or not, is the question.

Kristen Cerelli: 18:12

How long were you in seminary? How long does that last

Greg Dyke: 18:15

for the Masters in divinity was three years? And

Kristen Cerelli: 18:21

then are you thinking you want to have your own congregation? Or that's just a possibility? You know,

Greg Dyke: 18:30

when when I went to seminary, at least back in those days, they would assign you to a congregation a small one. Basically, they needed people. Okay, you know, there's a supervising person, but not there, that sort of that there's a district superintendent that sort of rode herd over you to make sure you didn't screw up too badly. You know, you have pretty much freehand. And the churches, least the churches I were at were were small rural ones. And poor, generally poor and in poor communities and poor rural communities. And, and I really liked that. So for me, that was a very good fit of the problem with the Methodist system is that it's an appointment system. So there are times when the bishop says, Okay, it's time to move on. And the idea is that you climb this ladder of bigger is better.

Kristen Cerelli: 19:26

Rank wasn't particularly interested in bigger or better. He'd been serving small congregations in rural New York State for roughly 15 years at that point, and it suited him. But since he didn't have a say in the matter, he put some feelers out and via the diocese grapevine he was encouraged to knock on the door of St. Mark's United Methodist Church in the French Quarter of New Orleans. If you remember the name Ruby Bridges, the little Louisiana black girl who in 1960, advanced the cause of civil rights as the first African American to desegregate an elementary school in the South. You might be familiar with With the work of St. Mark's, if the upstairs lounge fire of 1974 rings a bell, it's because St. Mark's was on the right side of the moral compass and not one two, founded in 1909, the church has a long history of supporting the same social justice causes that motivated, Greg. So the door to an inner city congregation opens, and Greg, along with his first wife and kids walked through it. So I asked him what it was like.

Greg Dyke: 20:29

That's great. You know, the problems of this are very, I mean, other than the issues of systemic racism and things like that, which, you know, is very present and manifests itself in an absolutely everything pretty much so that when I went into the community center, I was the only white person there minute I walked in the door became a white institution just because of me. It brought all kinds of different relationships within the community because I was wiped. What do you mean by that? People would talk, I have access, probably partly because as wide also, because it's not necessarily from the I was, I was not somebody who was from there. And I was definitely not the best person for this job. I was just willing to do it. But it's certainly not because I was the right person for it, it would have been better for me as someone who was local and somebody who was black. The interesting thing was If outsiders came to worship one day, they knew something was different there. And it was, it was about the interrelationships. They could sense of presence or something going on. That was pretty unique. When I went there, it was during the whole subject of, you know, gay weddings came up and that sort of thing, and was starting to make the news and the church was your churches were starting to save a rattle and do all kinds of things in the Methodist Church was horrible. Although there was a movement within a small movement that advocated, you know, doing the weddings and that sort of thing. And that was there in St. Mark's was part of it, one of the early ones in at that point, if a pastor was caught doing a wedding like that, they'd be tossed Well, years this, I went there in 95. When I was brought into pasture, the person who was my supervisor said, Do what needs to be done. But don't tell me.

Kristen Cerelli: 22:34

That sounds like a good setup for you.

Greg Dyke: 22:36

Oh, it was excellent. It was excellent. And I would tell her, just just just to keep her caught up. And she would just say, please don't say, don't tell me this, don't tell me. But this person who is the duper superintendent, and her husband was the one who sort of recruited me down there in the first place to go and try to get me there. They were high enough up in the system, and they were well respected. You know, they saw the door to be open in different places, and they would get through it somehow, you know, they would, if they felt there needed to be a reconciling congregation, they, you know, were weddings happen, and people were sexual preferences and gender issues didn't matter. They were going to make it happen if they could, in their own little quiet way.

Kristen Cerelli: 23:20

Do you think there's something to the way that you? I don't know if it's your your mathematical or engineering brain? I don't know if it's just another part of you. I don't know if it's your education. I don't know if it's specific to you. But do you think there's something to your perspective to the way that you, you look at things and you look for both problems and solutions, and you look for doors where other people might not see them?

Greg Dyke: 23:47

I think part of it simply goes back to what's important to you. Okay, as a person.

Kristen Cerelli: 23:52

You're in New Orleans, eight or nine years, then what?

Greg Dyke: 23:56

So then I actually went to was driving through Kentucky, and saw a sign for the red bird missionary conference, which is a missionary area that the Methodist Church runs or has pulled on my cell phone and said, You need anybody and he said, Yeah, so I went there. And I was separate. I was divorced at the time. So it's easy to you know, that was one where, you know, it's just me, it's easy to pull out the cell phone and say, I'll be there. And that's a place where I was just not a good fit. Was that

Kristen Cerelli: 24:30

that the end of the road for you with ministry? It

Greg Dyke: 24:33

was the end of the road, not not because of that. I mean, I realized that, you know, what they wanted was not what I wanted to be where they were happy with me. But I was not happy with what they wanted me to be. Know what happened at the time was, there was a situation where I think it was a setup where basically, a person who was gay as sang in the choir did all that stuff finally asked to join The Church, the pastor said, No, but we can't do it, you can sing here, you can give your money you can do it, I can't join. And the person, the individual went to the bishop, and the bishop sided with the person. And the Methodist system has this whole hierarchical thing of you can, you know, challenge things, and you basically go before this high decision making body, and the bishop got beat. And at that point, I thought, I don't want to be part of this thing. You know, that's really where it's at. And the high levels of whatever, that's not where I want to be. So when I, when I left, I want to talk to the guy that was in charge of the churches in the within the mission area. And he basically said, you know, II kind of said, I knew you're gonna leave, he said, I know you couldn't stomach that one.

Kristen Cerelli: 25:56

Like my actor brain is lit up. While I'm listening to him tell the story because or tell these career changes. Because I'm thinking about all of the times, I have switched gears in the hopes that this will be fulfilling, this would be gratifying, this will be better, this will support my creative work. And sometimes I just wonder if it would just be easier to throw in the towel and like, go back to corporate America. And he's not strong like an actor, but he's kind of living an actor's life in a way a few years here a few years here a few years doing this a few years doing that. He goes from pastoring, to nursing to teaching in the prison system to what he's doing now working for Habitat for Humanity, all with the threat of service and I can't wrap my brain around why he's not just retired and, and hanging out with the axe. So I asked him why do you keep staying in service oriented professions? What is this relentless need to be part of change that benefits others?

Greg Dyke: 27:17

There was an article that I read called downward mobility. Okay, and basically, you know, it's about the fact that the serious the person who's serious about you know, in their minds, you know, they talked in terms of Christianity, but the journey is, is about downward mobility. If you're going to work with the poor, if you're gonna work for you, you're not going for the corporate jet, you're not going up for more money.

Kristen Cerelli: 27:44

The article Greg is referencing was written by a Jesuit priest, Father, Dean Brackley, who coined the phrase downward mobility in direct contrast to the individualistic upward mobility offered by contemporary culture as the goal of life. In it Brackley ways the modern social implications of St. Ignatius is to standards, the way of Satan, characterized by things like covetousness status symbols, the social ladder, arrogance, competition, and cover up sounds a lot like capitalism at its worst to me, and the way of Christ, characterized by faith, indifference to honors, recognizing other's humanity, a community of equals and cooperation. And he invites the reader to, quote, discover their vocation in downward mobility by setting aside the pursuit of wealth, prestige, and upward mobility in favor of walking with the victims, solidarity and service, though even he acknowledges for the modern human, that's a really scary request. But not for Greg.

Greg Dyke: 28:46

Yeah, having the Yaks is really interesting. And I enjoy it. And, you know, part of me says, I can just be a farmer, of course, can't make the money to survive, but I couldn't do it. I need the habit, I need the work of the habit that I need to work with the other, the people, you know, who need the houses, that that sort of justifies the existence, I think the acts are just that's a nice thing. But what's important is what I'm doing with other people, but I think that's, I think that you could pose that to most people, and they would say the same thing. Because if you ask people, you know, and you get them talking about when you know, when was life really meaningful for you or you know, something gives really meaningful feelings about when they were doing something for somebody else. It comes down to those kinds of things.

Kristen Cerelli: 29:42

I think you have more faith in people than I think there are a lot there are a lot of people who are like that and then I think there are a lot of people who are not, they just

Greg Dyke: 29:53

haven't dug through the dirt. I think the people who are not, if you could dig around with them for a while and chip away some stuff you'd find it's there. Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. Problem is everything else says, Go the other way. But that's the problem. And you know, you look at the political system or you look at the economics or you look at, you know, the advertising or whatever, it's all the other direction. And it's getting worse.

Unknown Speaker: 30:25

Yeah, what,

Kristen Cerelli: 30:26

what comes to mind, as you're talking is, I think I've had this I don't want to call it a preconceived notion, because I don't know you at all, but just taking in your biography, and you know, sort of looking at the at the at the background, and the website and the and the Facebook page, I thought, This must be the most free spirited person in the world. Yet it sounds to me like you're much more mission driven. And then spin free freedom, personal freedom driven, I would say, so I want to get to the act, but I want to sort of wrap up, you know, phases 12345, and six of your

Greg Dyke: 31:09

it's just, it's just like, a stream, that's all it is. What

Kristen Cerelli: 31:14

did nursing, I know, you you worked in an ER and in a prison? What do I want to I guess I want to know what you learned from from that, or what you got back from that,

Greg Dyke: 31:26

when I wanted to nursing part of it was the idea that I'd go abroad and work in. And that didn't work because I did get married. So I was at a point where I also wanted to be in a position where I was doing something that was needed good or whatever, but I was out as sort of like just a pawn in the, in the system kind of thing I did, you know, I was not the one having to generate the budget, not the one doing the creative thing, and just like, take care of this person, do what I you know, what I found was, that I didn't like that, what I found was, is that, you know, I go to the ER, and everybody's talking on their cell phones. And the patients are there, like, what the heck's going on here, I, you know, I need some help, and you're in, you're on your phone. So that's the reality. And I understand that, and I really wasn't the kind of person that wanted the jump necessarily, on the on the person, you know, there are nurses in the ER, and they are good. And they they look, they live for that person coming in the door that's just in horrible shape, and they're so good. I'm not, I was never good enough to do that I can support them, I can take them, when they, you know, I was sort of like Round Two for the person. You know, there, there was an opportunity to work in a prison and do health care. And so he went and did that, you know, there there, there were all kinds of doors to walk through to try to make it better. And what happened was, the more you walked through and closer, the closer you were to walking out the door, until not to come back. So, you know, it was basically how you're related to the inmates. You know, I would say I did a good job. Other people would say, You are the wrong kind of person for this place. Because you know, you, you didn't treat him the way you should have. You did too much. So, you know, I could see the handwriting on the wall. You know, we all parted on good terms. And then I went back a little later on and taught class, college math classes in there instead, which was a lot of fun. And you know, that they could they recognize, you know, the staff would recognize me, and they say, you're back in this different capacity. And there you could you could interact with the the inmates. And you know, just the people I met, were just, and I'm talking about the inmate, to some phenomenal people. You know, they made some dumb mistakes. But I've never taught people who are says excited about learning, and who worked hard as hard at it. And people, I'd really like to have to be my friend. I mean, they were just interesting. Well read. We did a physics class, we did a calculus class, we did statistics class. And they loved it. I mean, they, they were dangerous, because they had all week to read these things and stuff. And I put in and then gosh, I hope you don't ask that question. Because some of it you know, I was trying because we didn't have a lab. We did a video series on relativity and so on. They knew far more about it than I did. I mean, I could keep up with him. But these guys were well read. And then he discovered that oh, yeah, I used to work in Thailand and I was the managing something for a corporation and you deal with it. All it happens. He got up on drugs, you know, probably because he made so much money to the living up past and he got caught or you find somebody that at age 17 They killed somebody in some drug thing and they straightened out and it's sad, you know? It's a sad to see him in their their time was served. They had plenty of time to contribute to society and would love to have done it.

Kristen Cerelli: 35:08

So let's talk bx. How did they come into your life?

Greg Dyke: 35:13

What happened was back when I was in the Methodist church, I was actually on the board of ordained ministry that decides who gets in and there was a fellow pastor was who's now a bishop SUTA Devadasi, who was from India. And Sudha said, you know, what we need to do is why don't you go over to India, and travel to seminaries and talk to him about building relationships. So I spent a month traveling India and went to the seminaries and talked to him. But you know, India is just like, the most wonderful place. It is just beyond explanation. You remember, I don't know if you remember the film Gandhi? Well, you remember, there's the point where he when he comes back from Africa, and they put them on the train, and they say, right around the country? And look,

Kristen Cerelli: 36:03

yeah, I mean, I got to do that.

Greg Dyke: 36:06

I mean, it's like, just seeing, it's like, going through so many different cultures, it was phenomenal. So later on, I would go back on my own and, and go to different areas of, of India, and so on to see what it's like. And last couple times, I went to northern India, to Dharamsala and McLeodGanj and that's where the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan refugees are, and really liked it there. And so it was in going there that, you know, I met Tibetan refugees, and they talked about Yaks and all that kind of thing and got me interested to the point that when I came back one time, I thought, well, I can't try to find one. And so I did, I found one in Ohio and the guy sold it to me and turns out you can't buy one yet because they'll see you as a predator. So the first day was great the second day the thing he tried to kill me

Unknown Speaker: 37:04

nobody told you that before you bought one yak

Greg Dyke: 37:09

am very interested in the sale not the not hold little details. Okay. And there's a lot of misinformation and just, you know ignorance about it. Anyways, I found some others out in Colorado from a guy that this guy knew and got them and then I went to the international yak show, which is out in Denver once a year and got to meet talk to the real breeders. And that kind of got me started.

Kristen Cerelli: 37:37

And are you already are you already living on a property that can support you having an entire yak ranch or yak farm or don't

Greg Dyke: 37:48

live there? So we bought a place just on the edge of the national forest outside of Moorhead and then I had a couple acres so it would sustain like a yak. If I bought the hay, okay. It was clear that like, if I'm gonna buy X from out west, there's not enough room. So we we bought an old abandoned farm. Okay, that had been fixing that up, but there's no house there. So, commute the eight miles to the farm.

Kristen Cerelli: 38:17

Where's Where does Linda fit into all this? Well, she

Greg Dyke: 38:21

certainly didn't expect any of this job. I mean, we met when we're doing nursing. She's a registered nurse at university Kentucky then became a nurse practitioner. So we met sort of in the nursing days, and now she went to India, and is a certified yoga instructor and Reiki master and gave up the nurse practitioner thing. So she just does yoga. So she walked through her door. So

Kristen Cerelli: 38:49

I would say it's fair to say that most Americans don't know very much at all about Yaks. No.

Greg Dyke: 38:59

Although they will, because you know, Jeffree Star. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The cosmetic guy. Yeah. He's bought a ranch in Wyoming. And he is dead serious about yak ranch. And he's the guy who's gonna bring it

Unknown Speaker: 39:17

to the public. I had no idea about this.

Greg Dyke: 39:21

Oh, yeah. So what you need to do is Google star yak ranch. Okay, and you'll see Jeffree Star with his Yaks.

Kristen Cerelli: 39:29

Tell me about them. It's one

Greg Dyke: 39:31

of the oldest breeds two to 5 million years ago. Basically your common cattle species the Bos Taurus and bison and what we know as yaks are all one species and they kind of split apart over. So in Tibet, the Yak is sort of like the bison was to the Native Americans of the X. You can use them as pack animals. You can milk them they They grow as a fiber under their care. So it's an insulating fiber, which is why they can tolerate the cold so well. And that fiber releases in the spring and sort of puffs out in comb it out is the same as cashmere and quality. And then the outer hair, you could use it to make ropes and things like that. And then the hives they used to make their tents. You know, of course, you know, as Europeans got involved in that sort of thing. They brought them to the zoos and that sort of thing. They've actually made it to Canada, probably in the late 1800s. And they tried to crossbreed them with buys and and things like that. Basically, they stayed up in Canada, there's sort of two different kinds of yaks is the wild yak, which is known as bas Mutis. And it's mute. And it's big. I mean, it stands like seven feet at the mute. You said, yeah, yeah, they're big animals. And then there's the domesticated Yeah. Which is what we have. And that's the it's, it's a different species. It's called Bosco Iranians. And it's called the grunting ox because it grunts it doesn't move. Okay. It just sort of does this grunting that's kind of interesting.

Kristen Cerelli: 41:14

I am down the rabbit hole now of watching a yak on YouTube. Go walk towards me. And Baby is following babies following grunting grunting oh my goodness, please do yourself a favor and go see these creatures anywhere you can.

Greg Dyke: 41:35

And that was made basically as the wild yaks you know, interbred with indigenous cattle 10s of 1000s of years ago. And then, you know, that also the people 1000s of years ago did some breeding and stuff because they realized the smaller ones were a lot easier to deal with. And you know, you could train them and get more out of them.

Kristen Cerelli: 41:55

What attracted you to them? Especially because you said you know, you weren't attractive, you weren't attracted to the horse life you did you did like cattle as a boy.

Greg Dyke: 42:03

I mean, part of it was just to see what one was like. And interesting, you know, sort of as a project, just sort of kind of a fun amusement, you know, I was doing working and other things. So is I've got a couple acres want to put a yak on it. So they have an amazing personality to me, they, they are very bright, and they all have their own personalities. And so as an animal to interact with, they're very interesting. There's also a sense of wit, you know, this kind of wisdom and age about them. There's something about them, that just says there's something there.

Kristen Cerelli: 42:42

How are they doing in eastern Kentucky? They,

Greg Dyke: 42:45

they do? Well, the difficult you know that because we're low altitude, that hasn't been an issue. And it turns out that the as a species, they have adjusted to lower altitudes, what they eat is different. So in that, if I took one of my axe to the Himalayas, it probably would die.

Kristen Cerelli: 43:04

So what is your life? Like with the axe? Do you visit with them every day? Oh, yeah,

Greg Dyke: 43:13

I see him every day. But you know, I get up in the morning. Sometimes I like to stop at the farm on the way and just you just check everybody because you know, the thing about Yaks is they're very good at looking stoic and healthy. But boy, when they get sick, when they look sick, they're gonna

Kristen Cerelli: 43:30

die. How many acts you have?

Greg Dyke: 43:33

About 85 on the property

Kristen Cerelli: 43:36

is that the most in the state in the area in the region

Greg Dyke: 43:40

in Kentucky? For the ACE, that's one of the larger herds.

Kristen Cerelli: 43:46

So what's the goal? For the X, the ranch for the X for you and the Yak together,

Greg Dyke: 43:54

survive it? I think it's a couple of things. One, it is turned again, it's a door that's open is one is to really work on the science side and get the right information out there. So there are people who know the right thing is to do and study and also the wrong things that aren't good. And so that's, you know, tried to hook up with those people and allow yak production or raising x to be a much more viable industry. The other thing about him is yak meat goes up in value where you, you know, beef goes up and down. And people have to sell out every couple of years because the bottoms dropped at the market in the x, partly because there's so few of them. And the demand always exceeds the supply once people know that the meats there. So you know, in terms of a sustainable income for small farmers, it makes a lot of sense. And the other side, you know, from the meat side, and I'm not a big meat eater, But the Acme is higher protein, it's leaner than Boz on and you know, it has some omega three oils and things like that. So as a red meat goes, is probably about the healthiest you're gonna get.

Kristen Cerelli: 45:14

I've read that yak milk is potentially a superfood, is that true or false?

Greg Dyke: 45:20

I would say yeah, you know, your yak milk is probably gonna be like the Jersey cow milk real rich. Okay, high fat. Okay, so one of the things I mean, you know, one of my toy ideas, I don't want to, you know, I would love love to produce some yak milk. But to get my head kicked in for a pint of milk is not something I really crave doing. But if I crossed, if I could cross a Yak with a jersey, and get a gallon of milk, that was half yak calf jersey, you know, that would be interesting. I think there are things like that that can be done, but somebody's got to be stupid enough to go through the door and do them.

Kristen Cerelli: 45:54

So beyond this really, incredibly interesting way that Yaks kind of touch on all of your I want to call them all of your talents and your smarts in different arenas and the potential for service, you know, to the region, the potential for helping the region. Is there something that the Yaks like provide for you that you don't get anywhere else from any other source?

Greg Dyke: 46:22

Oh, yeah, yeah. Then there's something magical about sort of just being with them, or farming type stuff. It's just a good space to be. For me, it's sort of a comfort space. I mean, it's just, it's being, you know, on the land, sort of with the land with the animal. That's kind of where we're supposed to be at some level.

Kristen Cerelli: 46:48

Do you now or do you have any plans to allow visitors to the ranch?

Greg Dyke: 46:54

Yeah. I have somebody called me today and said, we want to do a meet and greet with your Yaks. I said, What? Yes, a meet and greet. We read about it. And I thought, Where did you read that? We read about it. And we went on about Well, turns out the guy who lives near us, he's got to be in Bay. And he put that in his brochure, oh, he can do the meet and greet with the axe. I said, They'll greet you with their horns. You know, they know, they know me. And they know strangers. I mean, they and they differentiate and they'll behave totally differently. And I can knock them with their horns, but they're not going to come up and ask for kisses either. And, you know, my acts aren't a bunch of pets? Will this

Kristen Cerelli: 47:40

be the next phase of your professional life? Will it be always just a hobby? Will you retire into this life on the land with the axe? How do they fit into Greg and Linda's future? Well,

Greg Dyke: 47:54

I'm 70 years old. Wow. So you know, what I would like to see is destabilize the far more to get the business side of it. So it's, you know, self sustaining and stuff. And then, you know, hopefully, somebody, one of my kids or somebody will say, Well, I'll, I'll take that over and run out or whatever.

Kristen Cerelli: 48:15

It sounds like, the potential is there for somebody to walk through the door. I want to ask you just a few rapid fire questions before we end, which are sort of, you know, don't, don't think, just say the first thing that comes to your mind. The first one is a fill in the blank. Change requires blank.

Greg Dyke: 48:44

I mean, I would say, belief, not about religious belief, I'm talking about belief in the importance of the change. Or I would use the word desire with the same kind of idea or, okay, this is what the answer is, okay. Change requires knowing it's the right thing to do. That's what it requires. You've got it. You've you have, so means you've bought into it internally. And this, this is this is the right decision. Right?

Kristen Cerelli: 49:19

If you could go back in time and change one thing and only one thing about your past, what would it be? Well,

Greg Dyke: 49:26

I mean, the one thing I would say maybe, instead of engineering school to go to vet school,

Kristen Cerelli: 49:34

wow. But

Greg Dyke: 49:37

every step of the way makes you a person that you wouldn't be and puts you in a position you wouldn't be it'd be done the other thing.

Kristen Cerelli: 49:44

I mean, and so, yeah,

Greg Dyke: 49:49

I guess I guess, you know, the thing that I wouldn't have done it, I would have treated some people differently. You know, it'd been more on that level. But the big things I wouldn't want to have given up where they got,

Kristen Cerelli: 50:07

you're gonna have, you're gonna have a field day with this one because I know you, I know how you feel about the state of the world, what is one thing big or small, you would like to see change in the world,

Greg Dyke: 50:17

say, Go get like 435 changes, and a couple of a couple extras thrown out, or you can find

Kristen Cerelli: 50:25

your top two, I won't stop you. I might edit you, but I won't stop you.

Greg Dyke: 50:31

Okay, so one would be that those in power. And you can define power however you want. And, and people in general, okay, so people and includes those people would really see and understand and appreciate what climate change is bringing us to, to the point that would actually do something. I mean, to me that, you know, there are all kinds of huge problems in the world. But when you destroy the planet, you've had it. The other thing, and I had in the environmental become in this climate change is a genuine respect for each person's life. Everybody respected and valued and valued every person's life, it would all be done, how you see life, not just people, but whales and algae or whatever the value and the intrinsic worth and the preciousness of it all, then the rest of the problems will work out quickly.

Kristen Cerelli: 51:32

Yeah, lots of dominoes would fall from that one.

Unknown Speaker: 51:34

That's a tough one.

Greg Dyke: 51:37

But, you know, why does why does it? You know, why isn't there medicine? Why isn't there housing? Why isn't there? Climate, you know, the, the interest in climate change, just because people don't care about the consequences for others. I mean, that's the bottom line is, you know, if we cared about the people, we do something, but so you let the people you know, on the islands drown. So what? And that may, so then the question becomes, that's what we see. And understand and believe that, okay, that's the state of things done that throws 100 Open Doors in front of us.

Unknown Speaker: 52:13

And the question is,

Greg Dyke: 52:14

okay, does it mean enough to go through it?

Kristen Cerelli: 52:17

And do what needs to be done? Yeah, that's the question. Unless, yeah, let's let that question live. What is one thing big or small? You hope never changes?

Greg Dyke: 52:32

So can this be like a human characteristic? Of course,

Kristen Cerelli: 52:35

it can be anything,

Unknown Speaker: 52:37

I guess.

Greg Dyke: 52:39

The possibility of change? You know, where all of a sudden it grabs us, is always there.

Kristen Cerelli: 52:49

How often do you change your toothbrush? I wear it out. Six months, nine months?

Greg Dyke: 52:59

Oh, I can probably wear about six months. Okay.

Kristen Cerelli: 53:01

I'm curious about this one. I think I probably have a guess. But are you primarily knowing that we are all aspects? We all have aspects of each of these? Are you primarily a change maker, a change seeker or a change resistor?

Greg Dyke: 53:17

Where it changed? What was the last one resistor resistor? The best things I've done, I've never usually been my idea. I'm the one who will hear or see something. The probably somebody else innocently said, and I can do that. Or I can make that happen.

Kristen Cerelli: 53:41

I think I hear a lot of change maker and you and I think I hear a subcategory though have changed facilitator, knowing how to open the channels or keep the channels open or put the right plug in the right socket. And that's, that's special. Here's the last one what does your next change look like? And feel free to be aspirational or fantastical or imaginative and selfish too. All right. You can be a little if you want.

Greg Dyke: 54:13

I think it's figuring out how to go back into something that has to do with the environment. I have

Kristen Cerelli: 54:22

no doubt the opportunity will will present itself and you will see the door and you will walk through it. Maybe the Yaks will have something to whisper in your ear over the next few weeks or a few months.

Greg Dyke: 54:37

You never know.

Kristen Cerelli: 54:38

Thank you for thank you for really sharing this I think overriding metaphor of opening walking through the door and just sharing your time with me. I think you have such an interesting story and I can't wait for our listeners to hear it.

Greg Dyke: 54:53

Okay, well you're welcome and if you're ever in this part of Kentucky, come out and visit the accent Hancock.

Kristen Cerelli: 54:59

I will Ella, I will thank you so much. You're welcome to take care. Shifts shift Blum is a co production of T com studios and actually quite nice. engineered by Tim fall and hosted by me, Kristen Cerelli episodes are available wherever you download your podcasts and are made possible by listeners just like you. Please consider supporting our work by visiting us@patreon.com forward slash shift shift bloom.

Tim Fall: 55:47

shift shift Bloom is made possible in part by the prayed Foundation, a nonprofit organization committed to improving the well being of all through the use of personalized timely interventions and provider of online training in the T comm. Tools T calm is transformational collaborative outcomes management, a comprehensive framework for improving the effectiveness of helping systems through person centered care, online at trade foundation.org and AT T comma conversations.org. And by the Center for Innovation and Population Health at the University of Kentucky online@iph.uk y.edu